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| | | | I posted this on the thread where rinoa was asking for help after getting a death threat page after losing her child, I am posting it here as well. I am doing this because My situation regarding security and getting banned got drug into the discussion, and rinoa requested I post what really happened.
First of all, I was gone when this all happened, so I will say a thank you to Cradz, because he always handles things fairly and with compassion and objectivity, and adheres to his own rules here.
But has to shake My head at CM and quirk a brow.
Before anyone jumps on Me, I am posting this per rinoa's request, just to show how security bends the rules to suit their own needs, it all depedns on whether they have angst against you. I am sure I will get banned for speaking out against how security handles situations, but this person won't get banned for a death threat. Go figure...And btw, security did reveal to gabi and I who paged her when she got an anonymous harrassing page...
CM, I don't know where you get this crap. I never asked you to mediate between kim and I, I never asked to go to a private room with you and her. ALL I did was ask that a flame post be removed from My moderated thread. I have done that twice, when Cradz handled it, it was simply removed by Him with a warning to the flamer. When YOU handled it, you did not remove the flame. Then the person that flamed started paging Me, I answered, and Wwe got into a war of pages. You then came into the Chamber one night while kim and I were both in there chatting peacefully, demanded we meet you in a private room, and laid down some ridiculous rules. Instead of simply removing the flame, and asking us not to page each other over it anymore. You said we were to click each other, not speak to each other again, not page each other, not post about each other on the boards, that we were not to exist to each other. So, you not only took away our freedom of speech, but our right to talk to each other as friends, just because we got into a disagreement. We had no choice in the matter, when kim uttered a note of protest you threatened to ban her on the spot, permanently. you then banned Me, NOT for flaming her, or saying anything bad about her on the boards, which I thought the agreement meant, but simply for posting in response to something on the boards that she had been in My collar, the fact I uttered her name, although not in violation of any Pork rules, got Me banned, because it was in violation of YOUR rules. And not only did you ban Me and refuse to speak to Me in a chatroom about it when I asked, you started prying into My personal life and berating Me over that. you said you could not handle this chat problem on this chatsite in a chatroom, that it had to be in rt, otherwise it was "wasting your time". you demanded to call Me, and when I said I did not want to drag some stupid chat problem into My real life and discuss it in front of My family, you refused to discuss it with Me and sent me e-mails berating My family and My having any ct relationships. Well CM, what gives you the right to yank away My freedom of speech, to ban Me for merely mentioning a good friend of Mine's name, and to demand I discuss chat crap with you rt or get banned? And what gives you the right as security to berate stacy to Me, or tell Me That I shouldn't have ct relationships? What gives you that right as security? Yet you can't ban this person for giving rinoa a death threat? That being said, here are the Pork rules concerning having to give out personal info to pork personell...
"All areas are actively monitored by Pork Security to insure the safety of our chatters. Keep in mind that it's up to you to keep your personal life private, do not ever give out your real name, address, phone number or other personal information to members who you don't trust. Do not give out your Password to anybody, including Pork Staff, we do not need or require this information! Please contact us with the Nickname of anybody who asks for this information."
Here are exerpts from the e-mails you sent Me berating me for not wanting to give you personal info and drag this into My pesonal life...
From CM by e-mail as security..."Just because she was banned, doesn't mean the agreement was over. You then mentioned her, which was in obvious violation of the terms, and so you were banned. Frankly, the fact that you have a wife makes me wonder why you get into this bullshit at all. You have a real life marital obligation, and yet you're putting serious effort into a situation(s) of online relationships and how it effects you, yet you want to hide it from her? Seems like shoddy bookkeeping to me, but that's not really what we're here to discuss.
I asked to talk to you the same as I did her; on the phone. Unfortunately, you weren't nearly as cooperative, and as my time was limited (hence the reason for the phone call rather than a protracted internet conversation) you weren't afforded that same situation. However, if you wish, we can discuss it now that I'm back from my leave."
Your repsonse when I got indignant about what you said about My personal life...
"I deal with r/t matters all the time when it comes to our business.
This happens to be one of the times where it influences what's happening
here. Your relationship with your wife is interfering with my ability to
effectively moderate this situation. Hence it gets brought up.
I didn't give her carte blanche. I pretty much told her what to say,
and she did.
I'm glad you have no further intentions of doing that, because
regardless of what has happened, the agreement is still in effect. If she mentions
you again, she'll be banned. If you mention her, you'll be banned."
My wife is interfering with your ability to do your job as security???? All because I didn't wish to drag this into My rt life??? (I am not married btw, which is also none of your damn buiness) You can't do your damn job as security on a chatsite IN the chatsite???? It seems funny to Me that you started treating Me like crap after I got with gabi. you went off on her on MSN saying I should have known you wanted to be with her and I should have backed off...What???? 1) I didn't know you wanted to be with her, and 2) shouldn't that be HER choice???? So you have lost you objectivity where I am concerned, you have lost your impartiality, as evidenced in how you treated Me. So you treat Me as security however you please, yet you can't do a damn thing for rinoa. Figures...
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| | | | goodness me... i hope things get sorted out for lil~rinoa soon... threats aren't a good thing & security should take that seriously...
*gives my support to lil~rinoa & those that stand by her~
Friendship is what shows us that we are not alone in any joy or any sorrow - friendship quote by Pam Brown |
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| | | Services Director
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| KH, I've had no end of grief dealing with this particular topic, but since you felt the need to go off here, I'll just briefly cover the facts that you're misrepresenting:
1. Rinoa did not receive a death threat. No court on earth would consider what she received a death threat. Read what was said, and keep an open mind.
2. I most certainly did NOT reveal who sent the pages. You and gabi both had strong suspicions who it was, and I pointed out where your logic was strong, and where it was faulty. Point in fact, who you suspect sent said pages when you decided that you "knew" is -not- who it was. We do NOT violate privacy in matters like this, we deal with each situation seperately.
3. No, you specifically did not ask me to mediate the situation, KH. s~i did. I absolutely went into a room and asked very strongly for the two of you to come into the room, because I was getting e-mails from the two of you pertaining to a situation that should have been more than simple enough to handle on your own. si was in tears over the situation, and asked that something be done about it. She said that the situation had become intolerable.
4. Yes, those were the rules that I laid down. Which I did as a singular instance, because the two of you were unable to handle things on your own. So I suggested an arrangement. An arrangement that, as a matter of fact, you were very amenable to, and thanked me for my intervention.
5. The single most simplistic fact that shows I had no desire to actually get involved in ANY of this in the first place, was that I told the two of you that whenever you were ready to handle this situation on your own, like a couple of adults, you could come to me and say "look, we're done with this, can we call off this arrangement of not talking to/about each other" and I would say "fine, it's over." And that's -exactly- what happened. You were under NO obligation to accept the situation I proposed, and both of you knew it. So don't act like I censored you or did something you didn't both readily agree to, because that's ridiculous.
6. I have never once pried into your personal life, KH. When I spoke to s~i on the phone regarding the matter of why she was banned (under the rules you both agreed to, and she agreed she had been banned fairly), she was once again in tears with the entire situation and how frustrated she was. She expressed not a single note of concern about not being able to talk to you, so this whole "good friend of mine" line is once again, pretty ridiculous. The two of you were more than happy at the idea of not talking to each other again.
7. I brought up areas of your personal life, because your wants and what you were willing to do for them did not coincide. You had been banned from The Pork, and the conversation that you wanted to have would have been a long one. Conducting that over e-mail isn't feasible, and I wasn't about to play favorites and let you back in under the agreed upon rules. So I said "If you want to talk, we can do it on the phone. Otherwise, we won't have the conversation." You then said to me, rather curtly, that you had a wife and didn't want to bring up this entire situation in front of her.
8. Yes, the -way- I phrased that particular comment might have been unprofessional. I accept that, and apologize for it. The content of the message, however, I would say again (if only with different syntax). You wanted resolution to the situation, but were unwilling to go through the steps to resolve it within the parameters of the agreements. Your wife was not interfering with my overall ability to do my job as security, your unwillingness to discuss a matter about an online relationship because your wife might overhear was interfering with my ability to resolve THIS particular situation. It's a fact that I brought up because it was relevant. That part I have no qualms with. As I said, the lines: "Frankly, the fact that you have a wife makes me wonder why you get into this bullshit at all. You have a real life marital obligation, and yet you're putting serious effort into a situation(s) of online relationships and how it effects you, yet you want to hide it from her? Seems like shoddy bookkeeping to me, but that's not really what we're here to discuss." were unprofessional, and once again, I apologize. As far as this situation goes, though, I look at it (months later, I might add) and am still more than willing to say that everything else I did was more than acceptable.
9. I do not have MSN, and never have. I've never had a conversation with Gabi on MSN.
10. I have never once, in my life (and she's more than welcome to comment on this if she so chooses) told Gabi that I wanted to be with her and she should have backed off.
11. I did tell Gabi that I was disappointed that she got involved with you, because I thought she had better judgment. That was a personal conversation and this is the last I'll say on the matter, because the matter at hand is not personal, it's professional.
So, in summation: I didn't go to anyone, someone came to me asking for help. I offered terms of an agreement, and BOTH of you accepted them. I told you any time you wanted me to stop enforcing it, then just tell me and I would. You did that, and then it ended.
KH, you seem to feel personally slighted about this matter, but if that's the case then deal with it (and me, if you want) on a personal level. I'm not at all concerned about my professional practices in this matter, because I treat everyone on this site the same. I don't -get- involved with "angst" as you put it. This is a job to me, nothing more, nothing less.
And frankly, I do the kind of work that I can look at at the end of the day and say "this is work I'm proud of, and I've made the right decisions." I occasionally handle things differently than Cradz, but I was in contact with him on this situation, and didn't hear a word of objectivity from him.
If Cradz wants to say I messed up here, then I'm sure he will. But I'm more willing to lay odds he'll say "CM handled the situation was he was asked and to the best of his ability, at no time did he violate any Pork rules or regulations."
I do good work for Lee. Regardless of how many times it seems I'm called upon to defend myself to every slighted party in The Pork, at the end of the day when Lee and I talk, 99% of the time it's "Good job mate, see you tomorrow."-CM
-CM |
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| | | | Whatever CM, you did tell gabi and I who sent her the harrassing page, you had a very long conversation with Me about this person. And I didn't say gabi asked you to back off, you told her I should have backed off since you wanted to be with her. she showed Me the conversation, whether it was from MSN, Q, or whatever, some messaging program. she could say which one. And no, you never gave kim and I the option of not accepting your ridiculous rules, as I say when kim made some small note of protest, you threatened to ban her on the spot, so neither of us had any option besides accepting. kim contacted you on several occassions asking that your no contact rule be lifted, you refused to do so. It was only after many attempts you finally lifted it. And yes indeed kim is a good friend of mine. And no, the phone call issue wasn't about me getting back in, it was over why you banned me in the first place. I asked to speak to you, you said you could not and would not handle this in here, it was a waste of your time. (I believe I still have the pages, I certainly have the entire e-mails) Your job as security is a waste of your time unless it can be done over the phone? hmmmmmm
You just apologized for what you said to me about stacy, saying it is unprofessional. NOW say you told gabi you were disappointed she got involved with me, and that IS professional? Again, what gives you that right?
So yeah, you can ban Me over some stupid rule that you impose, but you can't ban someone for harrassing a young lady that just lost her child and wishing them dead. Classic, a thing of great beauty CM, my hat off to you for doling out security like some back woods southern sheriff. If you don't like the person (obvious in your post where you admit to telling gabi you were disappointed she got involved with me.) then you ban for whatever stupid petty reasons you feel like, but when there is something serious like this page to rinoa, you shrug it off. Wonderful, let me applaud you. *rMe*
btw, I posted this on rinoa's thread, and why don't you go read what her response was. Do you think the way you treat people is alright CM? It most certainly is not. This message was edited by KnightHawk on 2-4-04 @ 8:29 AM |
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| | | Services Director
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| KH, I'll repeat what I said once again: the two of you agreed to the terms. If you didn't want to, all you had to say was "no".
I'll also repeat, that it was I who was approached and asked something be done about the matter. I offered a suggestion. You two agreed to it. Are you really going to dispute those facts?-CM
-CM |
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| | | | How much would a potential returning customer be asked to pay for the permanent removal of not just drama queens but blatant drama whores?
Perhaps a "Drama Whore Free Package" could be created?
I act the whore to shade the truth of my pain in
a brightly colored and libertine illusion.
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Trust me, most of the names I have been called you can't translate in any language. They're not even real words so much as they're a succesion of violent images. |
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Administrator
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| ~chuckle~
Guys chill out... it's a bloomin chat site and the drama is getting plain ridiculous.
I have enough stress with my r/t work and family.. I'm certainly getting sick of running this site when some of you take things out of context and make drama for fun.
Keep it up.. you'll lose this site if you continue.. or at the very least we'll start banning some of you to make our lives easier around here.
I support CM 100%.. that's the reason he's head of security and takes the brunt of the BS. If it wasn't for him you wouldn't have this site to chat on.
CM isn't just another volunteer... he's the co-founder and also the only other share holder of The Pork Community Inc. He put up some cash to get this community started and some of you need to realize if it wasn't for him this site would be a lot different.
KH... quit being a pain in the ass... neither CM or I created the drama between you and kim.. you guys couldn't figure it out between you so we had to step in and try a solution that both of you agreed to and it solved the problem.
CM was correct in his actions regarding the rinoa page... we could not ban the user based solely on the page itself. I merely found the user was violating our terms of use in a different way that allowed me to ban that account.
"How much would a potential returning customer be asked to pay for the permanent removal of not just drama queens but blatant drama whores?
Perhaps a "Drama Whore Free Package" could be created?"
lol.. nice post Christopher... we may very well be heading in that direction...This message was edited by Cradz on 2-4-04 @ 10:19 AM |
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| | | | Guys chill out... it's a bloomin chat site and the drama is getting plain ridiculous
Hear, hear. (or, in this case, read, read)
I will admit I have taken the Internet more than seriously in the past, but if it interferes with your life to such a degree that you can't let something go, I suggest you seriously re-evaluate your life.
Here's a great one. It's called the "off" button. It's a marvelous innovation that allows you to switch your pc off. Did you know that all PCs come equipped with this innovation, free of charge?---
Am I dreaming you, or are you dreaming me?
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Am I dreaming you, or are you dreaming me? |
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| | | | DramaWhore Free package?
Dayum, I'd pay for that!
Got RealLife(tm)?
"They are just words on a screen." |
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| | | | *reads the entire thread*
Well as I see it, like my opinion matters, both parties CM and KH, whom I would like to think might at least respect my opinion a little, are both wrong in areas, yet correct in others...
*looks at KH*
I mean not to pry and I understand that comments to lady rinoa and such can cause tension in existence, yet bringing such things up are going to do nothing but cause her more pain, as for the rest of everything, it is a chat room, fonts on a screen, you guys are putting entirely too much soul into the "drama" as it is called and that is not good for anyone, yourself or the other chatters around you, so all I have to say is let it go my friend...
*looks back at CM*
It was big of you to apologize for some of the comments you made as they were out of line, but I can also understand how difficult it can be to deal with people whom are worked up over something or another, so there are bound to be times when you trip over yourself in trying to keep the peace...Arguing however is not going to solve the situation, so again, I say let it go...
*looking back and forth between the two*
And to the two of you together I think perhaps you should both just take a deep breath and try to start from scratch, use logic not anger to formulate your thoughts, and again that is to the both of you as you both seem to get carried away from time to time...
*steps back into the shadows but does not vanish yet*
You both may disregard my thoughts on the situation as I have not been privileged to see such things as they happen, and I do not presume to know everything, I am simply going by what I have seen here today...I do not like to watch people bicker and fight, and I am sure many of the other chatters feel the same...Just try to remember that one man's Justice is another man's Evil, so not everything that one person feels is right is necessarily right...
*bows slightly*
I shall take my leave for now having said my peace, be well and may your dreams bring you peace...
*flickers and is gone* |
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